PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:19 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:36 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:15 pm


PHP, work through something with me.

Griffen has a cap hit next year of $11.7 million, and his dead money is $1.2 million. Meanwhile, Rudolph counts $7.6 million against the cap with 0 dead money. You're suggesting we restructure both of them, and on the surface, it appears the Vikings hold the leverage, financially.

Here's the problem as I see it.

In order to get those guys to take less money for 2019, I think you're going to have to give them more guaranteed money over more years. In other words, you're going to have to extend them.

For example, if I were Rudolph, there's no way I would take half my salary in 2019 just because the Vikings want me to. His cap hit is $7.6 million. In my opinion, the most the Vikings are going to be able to cut off his 2019 salary, without cutting him outright, is $3 million. And IMO the only way that can happen would be to give him at least $9.2 million guaranteed over 2 years, an average salary of $4.6 million. I think he can demand that because he can get it pretty easily on the open market.

I think you might be able to cut $4 million off the books in 2019 with Griffen, but again only by extending him. With $11.7 million owed this year, it would take $15.4 million over 2 years in order to get the $4 million off the books this year. Again, he can demand this because he's a Pro Bowl defensive end who will have plenty of suitors if the Vikings don't play ball. Pass rushers are at a premium in the NFL.

So I guess I'm asking ... would you be willing to extend both of these guys to gain that $7 million in cap space? Because when you say "restructure," that's what I think you're really looking at. Guys aren't going to give up money out of the goodness of their hearts.

Or am I missing something?
Good point Kapp and yes it would be some sort of extension. I just didnt get into the details of that because stuff like that is even harder to predict and takes a bunch of number crunching to figure everything out. I mentioned in the beginning that I didnt put salaries on here because of that. Even with FA's we signed. I just put the length of the deal. In order to get my ~$25 million in cap space, I went off of Spotrac and clicked manage roster. I dropped Griffen's and Rudolph's salary a few million. There is no option on there of extending them past 2019 unless I'm missing it. So I just knocked their salary down manually (in hopes of an extension). Good catch though I appreciate the input!
I think it would actually be tougher to lose Rudolph than Griffen. It all has to do with who's behind them.

David Morgan is a good blocker, but he's not a true receiving tight end. He makes catches every now and then, but it's always a surprise. Tyler Conklin is athletic, but so raw. He would have to take a big step forward if we lost Rudy.

On the other hand, we've got depth behind Griffen. Stephen Weatherly proved he's ready to play and make an impact. Griff had a bad year, yet we still had 50 sacks.

So I guess what I'm saying is that if you let Rudy walk, you've either got to draft an impact tight end or pick one up in free agency. That could throw your excellent mock out of whack.

If I had to choose, I'd rather extend Rudy at a lower cap figure and let Griffen walk. I'd rather keep both, but we'll see if Spielman can reduce the cap hits of both guys.
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:56 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:20 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:54 am


Why wouldnt Richardson go for that? He's done it the last two years and has cashed in. As for Richardson making "so little impact" I have to disagree big time there. He made our pass rush significantly better this year. We had 50 sacks this year. With Everson Griffen missing a chunk of the year and then coming back not nearly as strong. Last year we had 37 sacks. Richardson ended the season with 47 pressures as a DT. That was ranked 6th for DTs this year. That is definitely an impact. No less there is a lot that goes unseen. He's never been a stat popper. But he's also helped guys like Danielle Hunter immensely. Last year Hunter turned 13% of his pressures into sacks. This year he turned 25% of his pressures into sacks. I'm sure Hunter got better yes, but a good chunk of that stat is because of Richardson too. He might not have made a huge impact in the run, but he made our pass rush legit and that was all without our top pass rusher from last year in Griffen for a chunk of the year.
He has been forced to sign one year deals because no one wanted to give him a long term deal. If that is still the case then I for sure don't want him.

I think the argument you make for Richardson making an impact despite the stats could be made for Barr. He makes an "unseen" impact by taking on TEs and FBs while Kendricks remains unblocked to make tackles. Defenses game plan around Barr and if he isn't on this team, they will game plan around our leading tackler this season, and Wilson or Gedeon or a rookie will have to make a play.

Losing Barr is going to hurt this team a lot more than people are going to like, and I do think he is gone. I also think Richardson if he had the season you think he did. The Vikings just can't afford him.

How do you know “nobody wanted to give him a long term deal”? He could’ve easily been offered that but didn’t like the money end of it. If he is offered another 1 year deal by us, I’m all for it.

As for Barr, I don’t think he is going to effect this team much. Especially if we draft a guy like Vosean Joseph. He’s a much better LB than Barr IMO. Barr is a good athlete. Outside of that, he’s not much of a cover guy, not much of a tackler and is an average to slightly below average pass rusher. He’s much easier to replace than a 3 tech DT that’s an exceptional pass rusher
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm

This may be a dumb question but if a player is franchise tagged, does their salary count against the cap?
Also, PHP, would it benefit the Vikings to tag Barr?
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:37 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:19 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:36 am


Good point Kapp and yes it would be some sort of extension. I just didnt get into the details of that because stuff like that is even harder to predict and takes a bunch of number crunching to figure everything out. I mentioned in the beginning that I didnt put salaries on here because of that. Even with FA's we signed. I just put the length of the deal. In order to get my ~$25 million in cap space, I went off of Spotrac and clicked manage roster. I dropped Griffen's and Rudolph's salary a few million. There is no option on there of extending them past 2019 unless I'm missing it. So I just knocked their salary down manually (in hopes of an extension). Good catch though I appreciate the input!
I think it would actually be tougher to lose Rudolph than Griffen. It all has to do with who's behind them.

David Morgan is a good blocker, but he's not a true receiving tight end. He makes catches every now and then, but it's always a surprise. Tyler Conklin is athletic, but so raw. He would have to take a big step forward if we lost Rudy.

On the other hand, we've got depth behind Griffen. Stephen Weatherly proved he's ready to play and make an impact. Griff had a bad year, yet we still had 50 sacks.

So I guess what I'm saying is that if you let Rudy walk, you've either got to draft an impact tight end or pick one up in free agency. That could throw your excellent mock out of whack.

If I had to choose, I'd rather extend Rudy at a lower cap figure and let Griffen walk. I'd rather keep both, but we'll see if Spielman can reduce the cap hits of both guys.
Yeah I mean I like Weatherly I just dont know how much of a starter he would be. Unless we started him for a year and then maybe drafted a DE fairly early to take over. Such as the kid from Clemson I had us drafting. It will be interesting to see what happens for sure
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm
This may be a dumb question but if a player is franchise tagged, does their salary count against the cap?
Also, PHP, would it benefit the Vikings to tag Barr?
Yes it does I'm almost positive. I cant even remember the last time we used a franchise tag. Barr would be making a lot in one year if he was tagged. The LB tag is worth almost $15 million right now. If it counts against the cap which I'm sure it does, there is no way we could afford it. No less, Barr doesnt deserve $15 million a year
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm
This may be a dumb question but if a player is franchise tagged, does their salary count against the cap?
Also, PHP, would it benefit the Vikings to tag Barr?
Yes it does I'm almost positive. I cant even remember the last time we used a franchise tag. Barr would be making a lot in one year if he was tagged. The LB tag is worth almost $15 million right now. If it counts against the cap which I'm sure it does, there is no way we could afford it. No less, Barr doesnt deserve $15 million a year
I agree. I wasn't sure what the number was but that's ridiculous.
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:08 pm

The Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer reports the Vikings will consider moving LT Riley Reiff to guard.

Signed to a big deal back in 2017, Reiff has mostly struggled at left tackle with the Vikings, although he was hampered by a foot injury early in the 2018 season. Perhaps a position switch would help, but moving Reiff would leave a big hole at the toughest position to fill along the offensive line. Fixing that line will be one of Minnesota's biggest priorities this offseason. Feb 5 - 10:33 AM
Hmmm.... I mean if they keep anyone on this OL outside of O'Neill and Elflein, I'd rather it be Reiff than Remmers or Compton. However, I'm not sure how I feel about this. We tried to do this with Remmers and it failed badly. However, I can understand why they might do it because 1.) Cutting Reiff still results in dead money. We save around $6 million but also soak $6 million in dead money. So he was the one I mentioned in the original post that I could see NOT getting cut. But I didnt expect a move to guard. Another reason I think they are considering this is because this draft is so tackle heavy. The guard class is pretty weak however, there are a lot of tackles that could possibly transition to guard. But there isnt a Quinton Nelson type OG in this class. I dont think there is even a Will Hernandez in this class. Ford is going to be a good guard IMO but he's also a tackle at Oklahoma. The top TRUE OG is probably Chris Lindstrom from Boston College who I do like and is a good 2nd-3rd round pick. But man, if we could somehow land Ford in round 1 and a guy like Lindstrom in round 3, that would be awesome!
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:08 pm
The Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer reports the Vikings will consider moving LT Riley Reiff to guard.

Signed to a big deal back in 2017, Reiff has mostly struggled at left tackle with the Vikings, although he was hampered by a foot injury early in the 2018 season. Perhaps a position switch would help, but moving Reiff would leave a big hole at the toughest position to fill along the offensive line. Fixing that line will be one of Minnesota's biggest priorities this offseason. Feb 5 - 10:33 AM
Hmmm.... I mean if they keep anyone on this OL outside of O'Neill and Elflein, I'd rather it be Reiff than Remmers or Compton. However, I'm not sure how I feel about this. We tried to do this with Remmers and it failed badly. However, I can understand why they might do it because 1.) Cutting Reiff still results in dead money. We save around $6 million but also soak $6 million in dead money. So he was the one I mentioned in the original post that I could see NOT getting cut. But I didnt expect a move to guard. Another reason I think they are considering this is because this draft is so tackle heavy. The guard class is pretty weak however, there are a lot of tackles that could possibly transition to guard. But there isnt a Quinton Nelson type OG in this class. I dont think there is even a Will Hernandez in this class. Ford is going to be a good guard IMO but he's also a tackle at Oklahoma. The top TRUE OG is probably Chris Lindstrom from Boston College who I do like and is a good 2nd-3rd round pick. But man, if we could somehow land Ford in round 1 and a guy like Lindstrom in round 3, that would be awesome!
Do other teams move their linemen around like this all the time?
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:09 pm

I guess they thought it worked so well with Remmers that they ought to try it with Rieff? :whistle:
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:27 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:09 pm
I guess they thought it worked so well with Remmers that they ought to try it with Rieff? :whistle:
I mean I personally think Reiff is an overall better offensive lineman than Remmers anyways. But it's a position Reiff has never played before so that worries me. But I guess in a sense, if Reiff is going to cost us $6 million in dead money, we should use him somewhere. And the fact that this draft is way more Tackle heavy than it is Guard, it's a move to definitely consider. I would really like to see O'Neill at LT personally. Make the transition early in his career. He is athletic and has to quickness to stop speed rushers from getting at Cousins blindside. Any QB can see pressure coming from the right side. I'm not nearly worried about that. I'm worried about his blindside.

I was at the Buffalo game this year and I know I've mentioned this before on here. Jerry Hughes kept lining up way wider than Reiff, taking a wide rush angle and hitting Reiff with speed and Reiff couldnt stay with him. He gave up 12 pressures that game. TWELVE! Rookie or not, I can guarantee if O'Neill was over there he isnt giving up half of that. Because he has the athleticism and quickness to get out to those wide angles where Reiff doesnt. But again, if we can save a $6 million dead money hit, we might as well use him somewhere. Unless we just switched them out and put O'Neill on the left and Reiff on the right. I wouldnt be opposed to that either, but if we are considering moving Reiff to guard, that is a dead give away that we have our eye on some tackles in this draft. I like the sounds of that but it also worries me given there would still be one guard position not filled. And I hope they dont rely on putting a Compton type player there to fill in and just draft another tackle. We need to stick our necks out in free agency and hopefully snag a guy like Saffold to man the other guard spot. Or even a rookie guard like Lindstrom from BC. We've done a better job drafting OL recently but we arent drafting enough of them IMO. I say the most ideal situation....a guy like Ford in the first, defense in the 2nd (LB or DE) and Lindstrom in the 3rd.
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:37 am

G/C Michael Jordan from Ohio St. and G/C Michael Deiter from Wisconsin are also good 2nd-3rd round prospects as well. They can play both guard and center. Jordan would have some chemistry with Elflein I'm sure.

Here is a question for you guys, what if a guy like DE Montez Sweat falls to us at 18? Do you take him or pass on him for an offensive lineman? I can just see guys snapping on here if we pass on a offensive lineman in round 1 but Sweat would be hard to pass up.
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Re: PHP's "Favorite Time of the Year" Mock Offseason

Post by S197 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:34 pm

I suppose it depends why he falls. I'm not of the mindset we absolutely must take a lineman in round 1 but if we don't, we need a minimum of 1 in the next two rounds and maybe in both.
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